The following was written by Camille 11325 at Red Pill Women. It’s a new idea that explains a whole lot in women’s different reactions to certain red pill theories. For the women reading, before you get to the part in the article where it breaks down your combination, figure it out for yourself. Don’t read the combinations and apply it to yourself that way. Know what it is before hand. If you go in just reading the descriptions, it is far too easy to think one is “good” and one is “bad” and assign yourself the good one to save your ego and to be part of the good group. This is like the alpha and beta in men. One is not good and one is not bad. These things just are. If you can’t be honest with yourself about where you are beginning, you will not be able to accurately see where you need to go.
There are a lot of misconceptions surrounding dominance, submission, and RPW. Many unacquainted with our subreddit assume that all RPW are 1950’s housewife wannabes, or that we are interested in the plate-spinning, alpha archetype that TRP endorses. Others write us off as a group of women in denial about our sexual kinks, and completely ignore the evidence to the contrary. Even within the sub, there is confusion when it comes to explaining the RPW relationship model, and what type of man is ideal.
After several enlightening conversations with /u/_wingnut_ I have created a system to describe various relationship models and dynamics from an RPW perspective. A streamlined set of terms to discuss this subject is a necessary step, and hopefully this post will lead to further exploration of similar topics within RPW.
A basic understanding of RP concepts and vocabulary is a prerequisite for this post, so please consult the FAQ, Wiki, and/or top posts if necessary. Please note that this entire post is limited to describing the personalities of average and attractive men (5+ on the SMV scale), and of course, these ideas are generalisations that can be applied to most people, not ironclad universal laws. There will also be a follow up post that explores these ideas more, this is merely an introduction. Please be honest when assessing yourself based on the criteria outlined below, there are many different RPW dynamics, and they all have the potential to be equally harmonious.
Our disposition, mindset, and personality, all have a profound effect on the types of relationships we thrive in. A couple doesn’t need to be identical to have a strong marriage, but they certainly must have the right balance of traits to make them compatible. There are two important characteristics that must be taken into account: the dominance level of each person, as well as the woman’s dominance threshold.
Your “Dominance Level” (DL) measures your natural tendency to assume the lead, exercise authority in interactions, and display other alpha male traits. For the purposes of this post I will use a scale of 1 – 10 to discuss DL, with 10 representing the maximum possible level of dominance one can have. A “1” on the scale represents pure beta, not omega characteristics, as we are only discussing attractive men here. The “Dominance Threshold”indicates how dominant your man has to be in order for you to feel attraction, commitment, and love. I will also be using the 1-10 dominance scale when referring to the dominance threshold. For the purposes of this discussion it is assumed that all women have a range of 0-2 points past their threshold where attraction is possible, and I think this is in line with reality. The threshold is the minimum but most women who prefer a 5.5/10 would not be comfortable with an 8 or higher.
How are dominance levels expressed in each gender?
- Men who are lower in dominance (1-5.4 on the DL scale) have a higher ratio of beta traits in comparison to alpha traits. At the lowest end of the spectrum they can be easygoing, empathetic, gentle, and considerate. They can also be sensitive, emotional, unconfident, indecisive, and soft. The 3.5s-5.4s exhibit more alpha traits but their nature is that of a “greater beta”. These men are able to provide comfort and leadership as required in a relationship.
- High dominance men (5.5-10 on the DL scale) have a higher ratio of alpha traits in comparison to beta traits. There are many types of alpha men: apex, renegade, patriarchal, criminal, corporate, political, etc. and they all have different characteristics that allow them to succeed and take charge in their respective environments. One thing they all have in common is an immense amount of masculinity, which can be both good and bad. The 5.5 – 7.9s are “lesser alphas”, similar to greater betas, only they provide less comfort and their personalities are less feminine. 8 – 10s have the highest amounts of Dark Triad traits, and are the rarest group of men.
- Women who are low dominance are non confrontational, empathetic, sensitive, and accommodating. In essence, they are feminine, not only with their men but in their everyday lives, automatically. They can be doormats, passive, weak, and insecure if they do not learn how to prioritise themselves first instead of others.
- High Dominance Women are more confident, driven, assertive, and ambitious but this is a result of being more masculinised. This also makes them more argumentative, self serving, and insubordinate. Some women like to think of themselves as “alpha women” but this is a myth, not an RP concept. Feminists have pushed the idea that male characteristics and virtues are a universal ideal that all should strive for so women are encouraged to be high dominance. Many who come to RPW find that with the right man they actually prefer not having all of the control. To be clear, a woman with a DL of “10” is not as dominant as a man who ranks at “10”. There are two separate scales.
How are dominance thresholds expressed in women?
- Women with low dominance thresholds require less alpha, more beta in their relationships. This means more affection and softness, more obvious and frequent displays of love and care. These women are repelled by or afraid of extreme displays of male aggression, anger, or arrogance. They are suited for betas and greater betas.
- Women with high dominance thresholds require more alpha, less beta. They crave arousal, displays of power, raw masculinity, etc. from their man and cannot tolerate emotional sensitivity, pedestalization, uncertainty, weakness, or other beta traits in excess. They’re perfect mates for all types of alphas.
- When a man’s DL is way too low for a woman, she reacts with disgust or infantilisation. If it is merely a point or two lower you’ll see shit tests. If it’s slightly too high, she’ll comfort test, and when it’s way too high she’ll be afraid. This applies to all women regardless of their threshold.
Taking the 4 categories into account (low/high DL, low/high threshold) there are 8 possible relationship combinations. Not all are optimal or RP but all of the dynamics exist in the real world. My hope is that we can use these labels within the subreddit in our discussions and the advice we give. In the IRC we came up with an easy way to refer to each dynamic with just 3 letters, all of which are either H or L. The first letter establishes the man’s dominance level, the second the woman’s, and then the third is for her dominance threshold. So a high dominance man with a low dominance woman, who has a high threshold, would be described as HLH. A low dominance man with a low dominance woman, who has a low dominance threshold, would be LLL.
Now onto an overview of the dynamics, which will be described from the female point of view. They are ordered from least potential to be RP to most potential to be RP, with 3 equally RP dynamics, there is not one universally ideal dynamic. Please keep in mind that these descriptions are all generalisations of what is most likely to happen, there are always exceptions.
- High dominance man, high dominance/low threshold woman (HHL) – she vies for dominance and feels little to no comfort or security. Possible violence as she is likely to stir up trouble by constantly challenging her man.
- High man, low/low woman (HLL) – she needs more beta comfort and can’t stay motivated when feeling unloved. Her man doesn’t know how to interact w/ her, and may find her useless or overly sensitive. She feels he is mean or scary. There is also a strong chance of violence in this relationship which only further discourages the LL woman from being her best and creates a cycle where the man is constantly punishing her.
- Low man, high/high woman (LHH) – she walks all over him or bosses around. This is a very common dynamic as it is what usually happens when a woman is out of the CC riding/AF phase and has settled for her beta bucks.
- Low man, low/high woman (LLH) – she is repulsed and/or can’t respect him, wishes he was more dominant. This is one of the most common dynamics when women come to rpw for advice. Whenever you see a post where the OP asks: “How can I get my main to be the captain” or says “I tried captain/first mate but he’s not taking the lead” then you know it’s an LLH situation.
- Low man, high/low woman (LHL) – a lot of feminist and “equal” relationships are like this, and they can work, and people can be happy in them. But there is a greater chance that the woman walks all over the man and disrespects him and he just puts up with it.
- High man, high/high woman (HHH) – potential to be RP if the woman respects the man. Women in these relationships may be masculinised/male brained by nature but they are able to achieve psychological femininity within their relationships and defer to their men. “Captain and First Mate” as described by RPW is not an adequate description of the dynamics in HHH relationships. /u/_wingnut_ (who is in an HHH relationship herself) prefers to think of this pairing as “Zod and Ursa”, or “Magneto and Mystique”.
- High man, low/high woman (HLH) – potential to be RPW and is a classic fantasy, but not seen as much in reality. The woman is naturally submissive and aware of it. She is drawn to a dominant man and requires power over her. There is a strong sense of ownership and there can also be a paternalistic element to the dynamic. A lot of women who would thrive in HLH relationships get mistaken for and/or wrapped up in bdsm communities. Again, “Captain and First Mate” does not fit, I personally use “supervillain/hot sidekick” to describe my HLH dynamic w/ M, but the best analogy for your relationship is dependent on the type of alpha your man is.
- Low man, low/low woman (LLL) – this is the most common both in and out of the subreddit. Contrary to what many may assume, most rpw are interested in or already with greater betas! When done right, these relationships are the epitome of the captain and first mate concept. The man leads and the woman occupies the traditional female role, but it may not feel like submission or deferment to her because of the lack of power imposed explicitly.
Can you change your dominance level?
Yes! If you are a high dominance woman, you can become less controlling, argumentative, disobedient, etc. RPW is great for that. “Cultivating a Feminine Frame of Mind” (located on the sidebar) is a good place to start and it is applicable to all as it deals with psychological femininity. The Surrendered Wife may also apply depending on the preferences of your man. If you are low dominance, you can become more assertive if that is an area of weakness. However, men who want the traditional, RP relationships are not interested in women who do not listen to or respect them, so it’s important not to go too far in the other direction.
Can you change your dominance threshold?
Attraction is non negotiable. It’s important to be aware of and honest about your preferences and select a partner wisely. If you are in a marriage, RPW can help you with your behaviour and thought processes but it’s not likely that your actual nature as a person will change. Understanding how men think can help you become more comfortable with a man that has a DL way higher than your threshold. If you are with a man who’s DL is below your threshold RPW can help you with respect, loyalty, and all of the other issues that come with those dynamics.
What can we do with this information?
Part 2 will explore these ideas more, especially the RP dynamics, and it will go into how to identify which dynamic you have if you aren’t sure. As mentioned earlier, this system will be a great way to have everyone on the same page when it comes to discussing relationships and giving advice.
We should all be aware of our biases, and our individual dominance levels and thresholds greatly affect the responses we leave about other people’s relationships. A lot of women with low dominance thresholds can’t understand masculine, dominant men, and that contributes to them advising women to leave their men in certain instances or worrying that something is abusive. The reverse also applies, women with high dominance thresholds are less able to wrap their heads around how other women can stay with and be attracted to low dominance men. It is important to be aware of our biases and work to overcome solipsism. It’s not about what we would do in their situation, but what they should do in their situation. Hopefully having the language to identify dynamics will help us all provide suggestions that work well with whatever dynamic a user is involved in.
Thank you for reading, I hope this all made sense and was helpful! Let me know what questions you have and what things you want to see in Part 2 :)
This is a unique idea and one I really wanted to share. One note I wanted to make is I think many women’s dominance threshold’s are out of whack with what they would naturally tend towards. We have been taught (many from birth) that masculinity is dangerous and bad and some women, who would have a high threshold would find masculine men attractive and then not understand why she does. This would cause confusion, among other things, to say the least. Not to mention those who are low dominance threshold controlling so much of the narrative today. They use their position to weaken masculinity and to shame women with high thresholds .
I have a lot of thoughts on this, but really I wanted to put it out there. This wouldn’t be so much of a manosphere theory as it applies to women, but it might help men to better understand the women they are with.
For women, I think it can be invaluable. If you can accurately assess yourself here and get your natural baseline it could open up your eyes to problems within your marriage and make it far easier to find and understand solutions.