One of the women at RPW found these gems from the Good Housekeeping Marriage Book from 1938.
- Did my husband start for work this morning in a better frame of mind for having married me, or would he have been happier as a single man or married to someone else? Remember, as you ask this question and apply your own answer, that we are talking about business; hard, practical business where intentions do not count. You may love your husband dearly, but if the results of your love are not constructive, you must write the word FAILURE across the record.
- Do I always treat my job just as seriously as if I were working in an office for a monthly salary? Some wives feel that it makes no difference if they linger so long over bridge or cocktails or shopping or whatever in the afternoon that they are unable to prepare a suitable meal for their husbands in the evening.
- Have I grown in poise and interests like the wives of my husband’s associates and superiors? Wives who keep up with the procession are an asset; those who fail to grow are a liability.
- Can I talk in the same terms as his associates and their wives? This indicates how carefully you have maintained your interest in the source of your income, and how accustomed you are to expressing yourself.
- Do I dress and act like the wives of the business associates and superiors of my husband? You place a heavy handicap upon your effectiveness if your husband cannot be proud of you in the inevitable comparisons with other wives in his organization.
- Do I entertain with reasonable frequency the people who are in a position to help my husband in business, or is our social life planned wholly for my own amusement? Perhaps this question should read, “How long since I have entertained So-and-So?” You may be surprised to find that months have slipped away without your having done a single stroke of good for your husband socially.
- Do I limit our social engagements during the week to those which will not take essential energy from the job, or do I feel that my husband “owes” me constant amusement when he is not actually at the office? As employers pile responsibility upon your husband, more and more care must be used in the allocation of time to social affairs. You may be able to rest the next day, but business does not permit husbands to rest on the job.
- Do I act as a balance wheel, cheering him intelligently when he is tired or discouraged, or do I rub him the wrong way on such occasions? If your husband does not share with you his disappointments, it is almost invariably because you have not qualified yourself to share them.
- Do I try to smooth things out after unpleasant discussions—as I would if a new dress or theatre party were at stake? Many married persons have an uncanny capacity for making miserable the objects of their affection. It is said that the course of true love never did run smooth, but the wise husband or wife will not unnecessarily roughen it.
- Do I carry my share of responsibility, or do I save up all the petty annoyances for our dinner-table conversation? Wives who complain that their husbands are silent during dinner have usually good reason to overhaul the quality of their own conversation. Don’t bore him with your fight with the grocer or the catty things Mrs. X said at bridge or afternoon tea.
I was immediately struck by the straightforwardness of these questions and suggestions. No hand holding. No trigger warnings. No excuses. Just frank questions with blunt explanations. It seems women were treated like they weren’t fainting daisies once upon a time. Now with third wave feminism we require trigger warnings, safe spaces and the hiding of scary man statues. Surprise, surprise we don’t need to be treated like children. Only, it is feminism who seems to require this special treatment.
I then noticed how respected the position of wife is. Sure, some will read this and see it as oppression. But if you can look past this, it is phrased in the same manner as one would expect any man to be treated at his career. There is no fluff, only the question, “Are you doing your job well and for the right reasons?” A job that holds respect.
Thirdly, I noticed how competition between women is not only obvious but exploited. However, exploited in a way that will help the woman to work harder. I leave it to you to decide whether or not this is right or wrong. Frankly, in these instances, I don’t think it really matters because the point of these is to help a woman do her best for her husband and by extension, family.
Fourth, take a look at number 4. Source of income. Boy that stings at first, probably for both men and women today, but it is the simple truth. It doesn’t mean that that is all a husband is or was. Of course he is much more, but this simple statement is still a chunk of the truth and should be acknowledged from any SAHM.
Fifth, it doesn’t shy away from how a wife helps and supports her husband and how very important this job is.
This post was left at RPW today and illustrates these 10 points:
It is a humbling thing to realize that my mother and grandmothers were right after all about lifestyle choices. I swallowed the blue pill for many years and all it did was make me miserable. My grandmothers and mom were and are adored by their husbands.
In the past, I viewed them as oppressed and ignorant. My grandmother was still trying to maintain a slim figure in her late eighties. I am pretty sure grandpa was beyond noticing at that point. I had to reassure her that the tummy she had as a result of osteoporosis bending her forward was not the result of eating too much. It makes me smile to remember her pleasure at a manicure she received while in the nursing home.
My grandpa was a strong confident man who provided well for my grandmother. He fought in the Battle of the Bulge in World War 2. He was a bad ass warrior, but at home he was a kind gentleman who basked in my grandmother’s devotion.
I made the observation that it is feminism that is oppressive toward women today and not men or the dreaded “patriarchy”. Iwishiwasamermaid responded:
Exactly. Feminism has only forced more work and stress onto women by saying “you can be everything” ball buster career woman at work, pop out babies and put them in daycare, then what? Dump the household duties onto paid help that you or your husband have to work longer hours to afford? Task your husband with half of the duties because you’re both exhausted? Eat take out or convenience foods because you’re too tired to cook properly? That’s been my experience. I realized how fucked up things were when I was pumping breastmilk for my 3 month old at work while someone else took care of my baby because I had the big career and income and it “made sense” for me to work. Oh, and my 70k of student loans that only I could afford to pay. Thinking I could play both roles ruined my life. It stole my babies earliest years from me and ruined my relationship. Thanks feminism.
We all make our own choices and must take responsibility for them. But we need to start teaching what the possible consequences of these decisions are. Not sugar coat them to make ourselves feel better out of pride or embarrassment. We also must learn and teach the very fact that our choices are our own and no one else’s. That should we decide to buck the trend, we are not being oppressed. It’s what we chose. End of story. No matter how much that might offend the fainting daisies.
On the Rock 
Reblogged this on To our bodies turn we then and commented:
“Oh, and my 70k of student loans that only I could afford to pay. Thinking I could play both roles ruined my life. It stole my babies earliest years from me and ruined my relationship. Thanks feminism.”
From the same book. The more things change, the more they stay the same.
“The economic situation is such today that few young people can marry at the age when their grandparents did. Many young people, rather than put off their marriage indefinitely, get married with the realization that both of them will have to continue working and that children are out of the question until they have laid enough money aside or the man has had enough increase in salary to take care of all the family expenses.”
I think married couples have always had children whether they were “ready” or not. Some try to wait, but before they had birth control, that was usually too hard.
We got married early, have had children before 30, and have been for the most part (I worked a little with our firstborn), able to live off of one income. It’s gotten easier to be a SAHM as my husband has gotten promotions at work… and he actually attributes a lot of his success to me supporting him and running our home well. He’s talented and hard-working anyway, but I think it has helped out that I’ve supported him.
So yea, it’s hard, but it’s definitely doable. We know many families now that are in the same boat as us, and we all just make it work but cutting out LOTS of unnecessary bills.
Awesome post, Stingray! What a great find, thank you for sharing!! I haven’t read RPW reddit in a long time, so I probably would have never seen this.
“I was immediately struck by the straightforwardness of these questions and suggestions. No hand holding. No trigger warnings. No excuses. Just frank questions with blunt explanations. It seems women were treated like they weren’t fainting daisies once upon a time. ”
^Yes, and it’s feminists that seem to go crazy at being confronted with reality. My husband listens to this funny morning show on the radio called, “Second Date Update,” where a man or woman call in and try to find out why their date never called back. The show calls the date, and they get to hear what the date really thought of them (usually negative).
The women that call in are so sadly clueless to what men really think, and when they find out that the men didn’t like how they were dressed too provocatively, or that they flirted with other men while out with him, they act like they have no right to feel that way. These women say they have a “right” to behave however they want on a first date. Or a right to wear whatever they want and not be judged. Just today he replayed one for me where the woman went off on the man, telling him she was a “feminist” and had a right to dress however she wanted and not be judged.
These women say they have a “right” to behave however they want on a first date. Or a right to wear whatever they want
They basically do. But I find it continuously hilarious that they believe they have the right to these things but others don’t have the right to not have a second date or even an opinion on what they are wearing. While, I’m sure they had solid opinions on what the man was wearing.
This “not be judged” nonsense, I’ve had it up to here with that.
Yes, and on that radio show, they’ve had scenarios where the female didn’t like the man’s attire, and didn’t want a second date because of that. And in those cases, of course the woman’s opinion on his clothes is taken as valid… but when men have an opinion it’s a violation of the woman’s “rights” to dress however she wants, even if it embarrasses him.
I love how my husband listens to it though, and then picks it apart in his masculine kind of way 😀 pointing out the double standards, etc. And the callers that call in to pick it apart can usually see the double standard (we are in Texas afterall). So it’s fun to listen to that when he replays it for me. Overall, I think more and more people are becoming “red pill” by default… the lies are just too easy to be seen through now.
Overall, I think more and more people are becoming “red pill” by default… the lies are just too easy to be seen through now.
Generally speaking, I agree. Feminism is self extinguishing, because they are never happy with enough. They starting out trying to “take back power” by demanding respect and whatnot. To be seen as strong and capable. They’ve come full circle and beyond and are now demanding protection from so many trite little things . . . from men. All the while demanding the same respect. It’s all so bizarre but does make sense when you come to understand it.
It’s all a power play.
This was a great post. Amazing how much things can change in <100 years.
1) …if the results are not constructive, write FAILURE across the record.
This is thumbs up. Bad will is almost guaranteed these days from women, not an honest attempt to make things work. Most are like kids.
2) Do I always treat my job just as seriously as if I were working in an office…
Yes, Yes, and Yes. I don’t know what has happened to women here, since most have gone to the workplace and should understand this.
4) …source of your income
Like this one. Today, few women have a teamwork mentality. I think a lot has to do with lack of fertility. Few children, no unity. But that’s just a theory.
5, 6): I seriously doubt most SAHM today have the skills for this.
9, 10): This is huge. Impressive that this article was so complete.
SR, I was immediately struck by the straightforwardness…No excuses.
I think it doesn’t fly for us today because feminism is “female individualism”, Women see themselves as fighting for their own positions, not the family.
Just like Protestantism is “Christian individualism” (freedom more important than unity or truth). Or how the institutionalization of elderly & children is really just ” family individualism” (freedom trumps family). I think women are responding to the culture of individualism, and this can’t be fixed without collapse. Hope I’m wrong.
I have been introduced to precisely three people who work with my husband (in 12 years!)… largely because he works so far away from home.
The idea that I would entertain them is so far divorced from reality … :p But one can find other ways to help one’s husband professionally. Look up classes he has asked to take, care for his work wardrobe, etc.
I think it doesn’t fly for us today because feminism is “female individualism”, Women see themselves as fighting for their own positions, not the family.
I agree to a certain extent, but there is definitely an air of, women need to do these things for team woman as well. Or as it is commonly referred to, “Women Everywhere”. But at the end of the day I think it comes down to manipulation for power. Which, as you said, is jockeying for position.
this can’t be fixed without collapse.
I think it can be, and we are starting to see the pendulum swing back in the other direction. The question is, did it start is swing back in time?
The idea that I would entertain them is so far divorced from reality
I think I’ve entertained for people at my husband’s work, at most, twice. It’s just not something that is really done today. People don’t want this and don’t expect it. The point of that particular one is more like you said (in 2016), help him to succeed in any way you can professionally. Today, entertaining work colleagues for many is almost taboo. They would almost think it weird.
I think different occupations call for different levels of public support. For my husband’s work, we have an organized wife group that does things to show support for them, lots of volunteering, meetings for a couple of hours every month (we bring our kids and have a potluck dinner), and we talk about the occupation and anything new happening, and even how to help our husbands succeed at work. I actually really love it. It automatically sets you up to most of the things on this list… and the women there WANT to support their husbands in any way they can – they make good fellow wife friends as result of that.
But we show support publicly (to his coworkers) in the way of bringing them goodies at work, one of my friends gets restaurants she works with to provide food for them for complimentary lunches that she brings to the substation. I’ve always wondered about the wives that don’t want to be apart of this group. Usually they’re just busy I would imagine, but when we are the women who are taking care of their husbands at work, giving them cards or pizza or sandwiches or cookies, it makes me sad that their own wives aren’t there helping (sometimes… obviously I know some people are too busy to do more). But when I go, I bring our kids (not the oldest anymore because he’s in school). But then all my husband’s coworkers and his bosses get to see our little family, play with our baby (whom they all love). So it’s *kind of* like having them over in the way that they get to really know us… and I think it does make them look at my husband differently, since they see us behind him as his support system and REAL LIFE family.
One of the older guys, after meeting us, told him seriously that he’d better do everything he can to come home safe – because of what he had at home. And this guy already liked my husband, but meeting us seemed to promote an even deeper affection (I think lol).
When I used to work in a research and office kind of setting, one of the scientists’ wives would sometimes bring in goodies that she’d baked from home for all of us, and yes, it did make us feel more connected to them even in a professional way. So maybe instead of having work people over at your house (which actually can still be done, it’s not too awkward 🙂 ), going to your husband’s work and bringing him and his collea
… (oops!) colleagues goodies is a good second option in my opinion 😀 Plus it’s just nice to know who he works with, reach out to them, get to know them and care for them on a personal level.
Goodies at work is something I do fairly often, especially at Christmas. It goes over very well.
The idea that I would entertain them is so far divorced from reality
I agree. We are no longer one people. Where I live, I would hesitate to entertain at home because everyone has different values. The size of our family alone would freak out most of my coworkers.
Remember, when the article was written the “big” cultural divisions were Irish, German, and English! And the Irish and Germans were desperate to “fit in”, acknowledging their culture was somehow “lesser” in America. These days, individualism and media rules, and that means entertainment at the workplace had to slowly die. Today, we “tribe”. We choose our friends but we can’t choose our coworkers and often have a careful, tip-toe relationship with them. No politics. No religion. Entertainment is often done in public, and can be a bit touchy and forced.
“Where I live, I would hesitate to entertain at home because everyone has different values. The size of our family alone would freak out most of my coworkers.”
I understand, but at the same time, how do you expect to influence values of society if you keep your lamp hidden?
“No politics. No religion. Entertainment is often done in public, and can be a bit touchy and forced.”
We handed out cards one time that my older son and I made to the officers that work with my husband that had all kinds of Bible verses on them to encourage them, if it offended them, they could have complained or just thrown them away. But a lot of them actually came up and thanked me, one said he put it on his fridge. Don’t be ashamed of your religion, the other religions or atheists certainly aren’t ashamed of theirs.
How big is your family MK? 🙂
Religion can get you fired today, Dragonfly, depending upon one’s work. It’s not shame. It’s self preservation. A great deal of what one does to help one’s husband will depend upon his job. Certain things would be highly appropriate for one job and not for another.
I’m sure you’re right, Stingray, it just doesn’t happen as much in our state. I know in the UK recently a man was expelled from his graduate school for posting on his own facebook about Christianity. The world is getting more and more intolerant of Christians, so we have to use discretion and not reflect bad on our husbands. But losing one’s job or graduate position at a school because of your faith and personal beliefs is one of the things Christians will eventually have to deal with maybe everywhere (in the end times).
To me, that’s just the religious persecution that Christ warned us about when we would follow Him (and not be ashamed of Him), and we should have joy in that persecution (as crazy as it sounds, I know). Paul had joy in his tribulations and persecutions, not in spite of, but in the midst of. But a man with a family that truly is concerned with his ability to provide for them and their well-being, isn’t as able to serve God or do as much for His kingdom as a single man because of this issue. How interesting…
But losing one’s job or graduate position at a school because of your faith and personal beliefs is one of the things Christians will eventually have to deal with maybe everywhere
Yes and this is already happening. But there are other ways to influence the values of society, without freaking out ones co-workers. I’m a big believer in the power of beauty in influencing people around you. Living the life we are taught to live is more influence than many of us realize today and it can open doors that would be shut in the face of more overt overtures. So a man, if he so chooses, can work in a career that would frown on overt Christian values, live in a very Christian manner without talking openly about it and show people his lamp that way.
People notice and tend to notice it more than speaking about it today. Speaking about it can result in a door slammed in one’s face whereas living it might shove that door wide open.
“Speaking about it can result in a door slammed in one’s face whereas living it might shove that door wide open.”
This is true, Francis of Assisi said a quote basically saying the same thing, but eventually in my experience, you find yourself speaking about it (hopefully not in a scary or awkward way!). I had one woman that I worked with that just outright asked me one time if I was a Christian, and she exclaimed that it was because of how I acted, particularly my positive attitude, that she could just tell. I knew a (single) man that also worked in science, and because of this, he decided to hide everything about his faith so that he wouldn’t be ridiculed or looked down upon or prejudiced against in the field. But at the same time, I knew very successful, esteemed scientists that weren’t ashamed of their faith at all, and talked about it openly at times in the office. We also had atheistic scientists that would love to make fun of them (in good humor) for their faith. Maybe it was just the kind of environment we were in.
Regarding my friend who suddenly decided to totally hide that he was Christian, it didn’t seem like the right response to me (I never said anything to him though!), to totally hide that you’re a Christian, never speak of it, out of fear of it harming your financial and employment success.
This is not a conversation to which I have any business contributing – generally. However, I would like to point timid scientists, curious believers, and those who want their eyes opened in astounding ways to have a look at Reasons to Believe. Dr. Rana, one of their vice presidents, is a friend of mine, a biochemist who has excellent advice for closeted believers in the sciences.
Dragon, How big is your family
Double digits. I hide it. It’s a shock for professional types. Once a female coworker was so flabbergasted she couldn’t shut up about it all day (I don’t wear a ring and act/look fairly young). It’s a better life to hang with other traditional freaks like myself than try to argue with feminists/idiots. Homeschooling freaks ’em too. Who needs the fuss?
Peregrinejohn, That’s an interesting site!
MK wow! We only know one couple who has 9 children, and that’s the largest we’ve seen. They do great, and the wife’s a wonderful role model for me. She’s the perfect person to ask about how to find the best deals for food and how to cook for a large family, plus she’s more adept at parenting and delegating chores out. There’s just so much to learn from that kind of family.
I understand the prejudice you’d have against you at the workplace, though., I remember my dad couldn’t get over one of his coworkers having a child almost every year. He thought it was terrible and physically unhealthy for the wife, and definitely looked down on them for their personal decision to forgo birth control. He thought it was oppressive to the wife, and I guess it didn’t help that every time he saw her, she just looked horrible. The family we know with the 9 kids, the wife looks amazing! She’s always in shape (even if it’s “round” with pregnancy lol) and she looks incredibly healthy.
Dragon, We only know one couple who has 9, the largest we’ve seen.
The cultural freak line is 7. Then everyone knows you are hopeless.
the wife’s a wonderful role model for me.
I try not to judge, but most women I know with 6 or more are fairly irresponsible. The only families I’ve met that work well have been run (and I mean “run”) by hyper-responsible males (usually well-off). I can’t understand why this is. I wouldn’t be surprised if we find it is something in the water or a virus that effects women today.
I understand the prejudice you’d have against you at the workplace, though.
I don’t feel persecuted; just have no illusions I can change evil libs. Living well is the best revenge anyway. Plus it’s fun to tease ’em; humor is the best blade.
The family we know with the 9 kids, the wife looks amazing!
Fairly common (although bimodal). Few women can have 10 without good health.
Oh man. If I had a printer, I’d tape this to my fridge because these are questions I need to be asking myself every day.
The part about entertaining the people who could help him socially and at work makes me sad. So do the parts about keeping pace with the other wives. I only see the other wives, or anyone he works with at the annual Christmas party. No wonder SAHMs are more likely to have depression today.
To think that there was a community, however shallow it may have been, that was built around married men and their careers — and now that’s gone 😦
How do they ignore the fact that the wives lose respect for their men?
Wouldn’t this be great? This community? To be able to talk to other women in person about this stuff, to bounce ideas off of them, to understand each other without the ever present worry that they would think us oppressed. What an idea . . .
The only families I’ve met that work well have been run (and I mean “run”) by hyper-responsible males (usually well-off). I can’t understand why this is. I wouldn’t be surprised if we find it is something in the water or a virus that effects women today.
You answered your own question. The hyper-responsible man gives the wife firm ground to stand on.
“I was immediately struck by the straightforwardness of these questions and suggestions. No hand holding. No trigger warnings. ……… Only, it is feminism who seems to require this special treatment.”
Very interesting , this
“I was immediately struck by the straightforwardness of these questions and suggestions. No hand holding. No trigger warnings. No excuses. Just frank questions with blunt explanations. It seems women were treated like they weren’t fainting daisies once upon a time. Now with third wave feminism we require trigger warnings, safe spaces and the hiding of scary man statues. Surprise, surprise we don’t need to be treated like children. Only, it is feminism who seems to require this special treatment.”
Lol! Well said.
This was a very good find. I downloaded the pdf document and started reading. Very straightforward, sensible stuff.
Great ideas, except dated in a certain context. The wives of this era did not homeschool. This changes your ENTIRE dynamic at home.
Also, in these days often there were aunts, cousins, grandmothers, etc., around, unless you were a recent immigrant or something similar. You had a lot of support around so you could entertain.
On the subject of clothes, I blogged regarding this at http://stthomasmoreacademy.blogspot.com/2016/03/summary-of-where-to-find-girls-clothes.html
and here also
http://stthomasmoreacademy.blogspot.com/2016/02/girls-sports-apparel-update.html
as this is a pretty huge issue among mothers with young children, living on one income. I would like to gently point out that, while many of them have imbibed the modesty message very well, they do not know how to dress with taste and style, or else they do not have the money to do it. They would have the money to do it, though, if they simply purchased a few very carefully chosen pieces and just owned less, instead of buying a lot of stuff at the thrift store that ends up not working in the long run. (Wear an apron.)
Clothing these days is getting worse and worse; my pet peeve is women who wear something that’s plenty long, but it’s so tight around their midsections that they are completely wasting their time finding things that are long enough.
Every so often my husband’s team has a breakfast, and when it’s his day, I make it. I swear by the Pyrex insulated bag…..if you don’t have one, buy one; it keeps hot food hot, cold food cold, and comes with its own glassware with a leakproof sealing lid.
“The only families I’ve met that work well have been run (and I mean “run”) by hyper-responsible males (usually well-off).”
Actually, I’ve seen it the other way around myself. My experience has been when this type of men really have “run” their families, they tend to “run over” everybody in their family. The thing is that the family learns to deal with this and figure out what they have to do to avoid being run over. Each person does his own thing and works to stay out of range.
The more disorganized type of women I’ve met who have large families often can say that they will end up feeling this way because of the myriad things that keep them tugged in different directions. A part of growth in this area is learning to ignore everything that isn’t on the agenda for that moment and then do the next thing, then the next, etc. It is not because they are immature or incompetent, they just haven’t learned the art of tuning out yet. That’s why men are better at a lot of these things, because they tune out automatically. We don’t, as a rule. The earlier in your marriage you learn tuning out, the better off you will be, the better off the family will be, and the more will get done.
On being well-off — yep, that sure makes things easier, but it is not the reality of the greater majority of large families.
>they do not know how to dress with taste and style, or else they do not have the money to do it.
I couldn’t agree more. Modesty does not have to be frumpy.
>except dated in a certain context.
Of course. There are always going to be things that make it harder or easier. The point is to see one’s husband as a husband and to treat him that way. Not to treat him otherwise.
STMA: My experience has been when this type of men really have “run” their families, they tend to “run over” everybody in their family.
I think one can best tell by results. Do the children prosper? Does the family prosper? The only time this doesn’t happen with a hyper-responsible male? When the wife is in rebellion and dividing the family. That’s easy to do; I’ve seen so many women do it just for spite. As I said above, it’s must be something in the water or a virus. Of course, it’s always the man’s fault. By default.
That’s why men are better at a lot of these things, because they tune out automatically.
The men I’ve seen do the opposite, they are hyper-aggressive and “tune in”. You contradict yourself here: how can men “run over” their families while they are “tuning them out”? Looks like these men are always at fault in your world.
On being well-off — yep, that sure makes things easier, but it is not the reality of the greater majority of large families.
When men are well-off, it’s mostly because they are a) hyper-responsible with money, and b) intelligent and/or work hard. There is a strong correlation between SAHDs (or SAHM’s) who do well at home and make a lot of money at work. They do good work wherever they are. They “tune in” and work their ass off. Women tend to be less responsible where I live. Higher expectations, they think SAHM is a right. Well, each year less and less men are willing to play this dirty game of heads she wins and tails he loses. Change is in the wind.
MK,
“Running over” — deciding what is going to happen and that it’s going to happen regardless of circumstances or others’ capacities.
“Tuning out” — disregarding opinions that are contrary to theirs if the other person cannot back up everything with extensive and pure logic.
I understand being a SAHM mom isn’t a right. I know some who believe it is; I am not trying to mooch off of anybody, although I am unable to make a higher income while homeschooling. I have a small seamstress business which to this point is only local as I don’t feel confident to custom measure anybody over the Internet for dresses. But it does make a small amount and usually I can pay my kids’ fees for enrollment in Seton (Seton Home Study School, FYI) with it.
(I actually started the business with that in mind; I couldn’t manage keeping records and making lesson plans for five grade levels anymore; plus I needed an objective third party to grade essays.)
I am sorry you are irritated by my observations; I did not want to get anybody angry. I thought other views were welcome here as long as they were stated politely.
I thought other views were welcome here as long as they were stated politely.
All views are welcome here, and all are welcome to discuss, debate and argue these views how they see fit. No trolls of course, but to date, I’ve not had a problem with any.
STMA, I am sorry you are irritated by my observations; I did not want to get anybody angry. I thought other views were welcome here as long as they were stated politely.
Passive-aggressive, anyone? Who said I was angry, irritated, or claiming anyone’s comments aren’t welcome? Only you. You disagreed with my comment. Great. I disagree with yours. I happen to be right. I’ve no angst. Only distaste.
“Running over” — deciding what is going to happen and that it’s going to happen regardless of circumstances or others’ capacities.
At work or on a sports team I give my opinion fiercely. Then I cheerfully do what I’m told. My coworkers or teammates had better do likewise. Or I will find another job/team. My boss or coach makes the final calls on “circumstances” and “capacities”. And I’m happy he does. That’s why we will win. This is not “running over” me. It’s called leadership.
“Tuning out” — disregarding opinions that are contrary to theirs if the other person cannot back up everything with extensive and pure logic.
Imagine it! Demanding extensive logic to make decisions that effects a whole family! As a kid, I pray, pray, PRAY my dad “tunes out” (your definition) EVERYONE. He actually has a moral obligation to do so.
” I swear by the Pyrex insulated bag….”
I agree STMA, they are perfect for transporting food… save me burned legs (and cold dishes) many times on holidays.
“That’s why men are better at a lot of these things, because they tune out automatically. We don’t, as a rule. The earlier in your marriage you learn tuning out, the better off you will be, the better off the family will be, and the more will get done.”
I wonder if you mean that men are better at “zeroing in” on a task that needs to be done, whereas with women, there’s so much going on that they sometimes are paying attention to, that they have to mentally try to block out all the noise or chores on their list for later, so that they can focus better.
Instead of “tuning out,” did you just mean that they’re better at focusing on something?
Dragonfly,
“Zeroing in” is definitely a part of it. I should have clarified that point. They are definitely single-focused. We are not; we are by nature multitaskers, which is necessary for our role in life.
But I still stand by the original “tuning out”, which has evidently caused so much ire. I don’t understand why that is so distasteful to everybody; I’m sort of bemused that everybody is jumping down my back for that. It simply is. It is neither good nor bad, it just is.
Let me put it this way. I have learned over the course of years (both as a child/teenager and then later as an adult) that it is unwise to do much talking. People in charge are really not very interested in much input. You are generally better off keeping your mouth shut and doing what you’re told, regardless of whether or not you agree with it (and frequently you may disagree VERY strongly, and later on the results bear you out.) But you already know after prior experiences that discussing the matter is fruitless. It will only cause problems. Tell me, which is better — to have raised voices and angry words fly about, or to simply listen to what is said, taking what you know is good and will work and leaving the rest? I opt for the latter choice. It is more polite and keeps the atmosphere calm and quiet.
One of the reasons I blog — it’s a pleasant way to converse without getting one’s opinions shot down. I enjoy it.
However, I don’t want to cause problems on Stingray’s blog, so I’ll end my part of the conversation. If you want to see my blog and still believe I am a closet feminist, then you are certainly entitled to your opinion. Perhaps my experiences have been different from yours. I prefer to keep the peace at all costs. I write my blog because this way I have a forum to say what I believe. I don’t discuss my opinions with anyone other than acquaintances which whom I do not live, or in a neutral setting. I don’t share them with those close by as dissension and heated tempers with yelling are absolutely abhorrent to me and I will do whatever is necessary to avoid them. If conversations start going in a direction like that, I simply cease participation in them. I listen and take what will work and leave what won’t. If I sense that my input won’t be welcome without major argument, I don’t offer it; I just sit on the sidelines and observe and listen. I avoid conflict and will continue to avoid conflict. I avoided it growing up as I didn’t want a backhand across my face. Over the years, I learned that this method avoids much ill-will in general.
Again, please accept my apologies if this caused irritation to anybody. I will back out of this conversation now. Thanks to you all.
Very interesting. However, I believe you misunderstood number 4. They’re not referring to the husband as the “source of your income.” I believe that it’s referring the husband’s chosen profession. That’s the source of “your” (meaning your family’s) income. It’s saying you should take an interest in and have at least a cursory understanding of his profession and be able to discuss it intelligently when meeting his colleagues.
You make a good point, pt. I think I did misunderstand # 4. Thank you.